Maharashtra strongman and Nationalist Congress Party chief Sharad Pawar will turn 75 on December 12, 2015 for which a gala celebration has been organised in the capital’s Vigyan Bhavan on December 10, where the President, Vice-President, Prime Minister, MPs and other political heavyweights are invited. In a candid interview, Pawar talks about the highs and lows, the controversies that have dogged him, and the future of the NCP. Excerpts:
At 75, what would you say are the hits and misses in your political career?
I would say being in parliamentary and assembly politics consistently for more than 40 years without a break – but I have also seen ups and downs. Perhaps being the chief minister of a state four times could be considered a hit, as is joining government of India as defence minister, and also becoming agriculture minister. I would say the period between 2004-2014 was one of the happiest phases of my life. I’m pleased with my performance as agriculture minister: When I took office we were one of the biggest importers of food grains, wheat etc and when I relinquished office, we became the biggest exporter of rice in the world. We are now self-sufficient in food grains.
Would you say your failed attempt to become prime minister in 1991 be a political low point?
It was a pragmatic and rational decision. At that time, remember Narasimha Rao became prime minister without any contest in the Congress party. I was chief minister of Maharashtra and we had sent the highest number of Congress members of Parliament in that election. So, it was suggested that there should be voting between me and Rao, and Sidharth Shankar Ray was deputed to hold the election. It was not an election in the strictest sense – members were called by Ray one by one and they gave their choice, and Rao got more support than me. This method was not truly democratic but there was no hanky panky.
Were you surprised by the outcome?
It was the first time something like this took place – obviously northern India decided to support Rao. At that time the Congress leadership, leading with Sonia Gandhi, was taking advice from these northern leaders like Arjun Singh, Sitaram Kesri and others.
You left the Congress Party twice, in 1978 and finally in 1999, when you formed the Nationalist Congress Party, any regrets?
In 1978, I left the party soon after Emergency as the party was divided between Indira Gandhi and Brahmanand Reddy with YB Chavan. I chose to be with the latter. In 1999, it was a shocking case. At a Congress meeting, Sonia Gandhi herself raised her foreign origin issue for discussion, whether it could become a political campaign issue. After Sangma and Tariq (Anwar) spoke for it, I was asked for my opinion. I said that though Sonia Gandhi did not leave the country after Rajiv’s assassination and lived here, I agreed with them that her foreign origins would become an issue. I was giving an opinion, which is not a crime, it was certainly not a demand. Soon, I heard colleagues like Arjun Singh were saying this was unpardonable, and we were expelled from the party.
Any regrets?
We are a small party and it is challenging. We fought the Congress the first time in 1999 Maharashtra Assembly, to form a coalition government for 15 years, winning three elections. Similarly, in 2004, we joined the UPA government and managed to be together for 10 years. My equation with Sonia Gandhi is quite good, she is a cementing force in the Congress. She is also leading a party where I spent more years than those people who threw me out!
What is your opinion of Rahul Gandhi today?
He is taking a lot of pain and effort in travelling all over India but political parties will only defend and back a leader who can win elections for it, and Rahul has yet to prove himself. The Congress Party’s last such leader was Indira Gandhi, who could pick any candidate, and they would win.
Is that time over?
No, look at Narendra Modi, he could do the same with his aggressive campaign where so many first-time candidates won the 2014 Lok Sabha poll.
You called Modi a groom in a hurry in the run up to 2014 general election. What’s your assessment of him as prime minister?
I’ve dealt with Modi quite extensively when I was agriculture minister and he was chief minister of Gujarat. I can say he was ready to work very hard, and his total focus was development, development, development. Today, he may be going in that direction but there’s a big difference – you could perhaps run one state by one man but it’s not possible when you are running the country. Modi needs a team, not just a few people like he does, but a galaxy of party colleagues. He must keep a distance and motivate and inspire, but all we see is Modi trying to work hard.
You are perhaps one leader to whom no corruption charges have stuck – from Dawood Ibrahim to Telgi, wheat imports to commodity exchange, DB Realty to Lavasa, Indian Premier League to Board of Control for Cricket in India? How have you managed not even a cursory scrutiny by investigating agencies?
I have paid the price for taking bold decisions and for believing that only industrial development can make a difference in the country. For instance, my interest in DB Realty’s Vinod Goenka is that he set up a co-operative dairy in Baramati with collection of milk from villages in and near the district. There can be development only if land, where 82% farmers own small share holdings – not more than 2 hectares – is made more productive. Families should have only one member in agriculture, the rest should be in industry and service, which is why I’ve encouraged setting up industrial estates all over Maharashtra. Lavasa was one such vision, after I went to the Lake district in England, where tourism can make local population prosper. We have to release people from agriculture to service and industrial sector. People have taken me to court but to no avail – neither me nor any of my family members is involved in any industrial dealing.
Is it true that the NCP is carved between your daughter Supriya Sule, who takes charge of national politics, and your nephew, Ajit, who takes charge of the state?
That is completely untrue – every member of NCP has to prove themselves to take charge of party. In the 15 years of Congress-NCP rule, it was only for two years that a Pawar became deputy chief minister. Losing the late RR Patil was a great loss. It’s up to the youngsters of the party to prove their mettle, and we have many of them. I’ve already started the process of withdrawal from the party, now concentrating on educational institutions and agriculture. My new focus is on Rayat Shikshan Sanstha, an educational venture where there’s no capitation fees and the regional sugar institute where cutting edge research is also being done.
There are pitched rumours that you could ally with BJP once Shiv Sena breaks off in Maharashtra?
There’s no question. The NCP and Congress have to work together, our going separate ways at elections has affected both of us badly. The time has come for an agreed minimum programme, and we’ll go only with the Congress.
If I had talked about aligning with the BJP, it was just a political strategy. I am from the Gandhi-Nehru-YB Chavan ideology and Hindutva is out of the question. I started my career as a Congressman, and we follow Congress ideology in the NCP. My parents believed in the reform movements of Jyotiba Phule and Dr Ambedkar, and I am a product of that ideology. We can never accept Hindutva and other regressive forces.
How do you like to relax? You are known to enjoy your vacations?
I love reading and listening to classical music – Bhimsen Joshi, Kishori Amonkar. I travel four days a week. I like going to London every year, going to their book shops and parliament library. In India, my favourite destinations are the pristine beaches and deep sea diving of Vengurla, on the Maharashtra-Goa border – the Dak Bungalow there is amazing –and Guhagar and Ganpatipule beaches in Ratnagiri.
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At 75, what would you say are the hits and misses in your political career?
I would say being in parliamentary and assembly politics consistently for more than 40 years without a break – but I have also seen ups and downs. Perhaps being the chief minister of a state four times could be considered a hit, as is joining government of India as defence minister, and also becoming agriculture minister. I would say the period between 2004-2014 was one of the happiest phases of my life. I’m pleased with my performance as agriculture minister: When I took office we were one of the biggest importers of food grains, wheat etc and when I relinquished office, we became the biggest exporter of rice in the world. We are now self-sufficient in food grains.
Would you say your failed attempt to become prime minister in 1991 be a political low point?
It was a pragmatic and rational decision. At that time, remember Narasimha Rao became prime minister without any contest in the Congress party. I was chief minister of Maharashtra and we had sent the highest number of Congress members of Parliament in that election. So, it was suggested that there should be voting between me and Rao, and Sidharth Shankar Ray was deputed to hold the election. It was not an election in the strictest sense – members were called by Ray one by one and they gave their choice, and Rao got more support than me. This method was not truly democratic but there was no hanky panky.
Were you surprised by the outcome?
It was the first time something like this took place – obviously northern India decided to support Rao. At that time the Congress leadership, leading with Sonia Gandhi, was taking advice from these northern leaders like Arjun Singh, Sitaram Kesri and others.
You left the Congress Party twice, in 1978 and finally in 1999, when you formed the Nationalist Congress Party, any regrets?
In 1978, I left the party soon after Emergency as the party was divided between Indira Gandhi and Brahmanand Reddy with YB Chavan. I chose to be with the latter. In 1999, it was a shocking case. At a Congress meeting, Sonia Gandhi herself raised her foreign origin issue for discussion, whether it could become a political campaign issue. After Sangma and Tariq (Anwar) spoke for it, I was asked for my opinion. I said that though Sonia Gandhi did not leave the country after Rajiv’s assassination and lived here, I agreed with them that her foreign origins would become an issue. I was giving an opinion, which is not a crime, it was certainly not a demand. Soon, I heard colleagues like Arjun Singh were saying this was unpardonable, and we were expelled from the party.
Any regrets?
We are a small party and it is challenging. We fought the Congress the first time in 1999 Maharashtra Assembly, to form a coalition government for 15 years, winning three elections. Similarly, in 2004, we joined the UPA government and managed to be together for 10 years. My equation with Sonia Gandhi is quite good, she is a cementing force in the Congress. She is also leading a party where I spent more years than those people who threw me out!
What is your opinion of Rahul Gandhi today?
He is taking a lot of pain and effort in travelling all over India but political parties will only defend and back a leader who can win elections for it, and Rahul has yet to prove himself. The Congress Party’s last such leader was Indira Gandhi, who could pick any candidate, and they would win.
Is that time over?
No, look at Narendra Modi, he could do the same with his aggressive campaign where so many first-time candidates won the 2014 Lok Sabha poll.
You called Modi a groom in a hurry in the run up to 2014 general election. What’s your assessment of him as prime minister?
I’ve dealt with Modi quite extensively when I was agriculture minister and he was chief minister of Gujarat. I can say he was ready to work very hard, and his total focus was development, development, development. Today, he may be going in that direction but there’s a big difference – you could perhaps run one state by one man but it’s not possible when you are running the country. Modi needs a team, not just a few people like he does, but a galaxy of party colleagues. He must keep a distance and motivate and inspire, but all we see is Modi trying to work hard.
You are perhaps one leader to whom no corruption charges have stuck – from Dawood Ibrahim to Telgi, wheat imports to commodity exchange, DB Realty to Lavasa, Indian Premier League to Board of Control for Cricket in India? How have you managed not even a cursory scrutiny by investigating agencies?
I have paid the price for taking bold decisions and for believing that only industrial development can make a difference in the country. For instance, my interest in DB Realty’s Vinod Goenka is that he set up a co-operative dairy in Baramati with collection of milk from villages in and near the district. There can be development only if land, where 82% farmers own small share holdings – not more than 2 hectares – is made more productive. Families should have only one member in agriculture, the rest should be in industry and service, which is why I’ve encouraged setting up industrial estates all over Maharashtra. Lavasa was one such vision, after I went to the Lake district in England, where tourism can make local population prosper. We have to release people from agriculture to service and industrial sector. People have taken me to court but to no avail – neither me nor any of my family members is involved in any industrial dealing.
Is it true that the NCP is carved between your daughter Supriya Sule, who takes charge of national politics, and your nephew, Ajit, who takes charge of the state?
That is completely untrue – every member of NCP has to prove themselves to take charge of party. In the 15 years of Congress-NCP rule, it was only for two years that a Pawar became deputy chief minister. Losing the late RR Patil was a great loss. It’s up to the youngsters of the party to prove their mettle, and we have many of them. I’ve already started the process of withdrawal from the party, now concentrating on educational institutions and agriculture. My new focus is on Rayat Shikshan Sanstha, an educational venture where there’s no capitation fees and the regional sugar institute where cutting edge research is also being done.
There are pitched rumours that you could ally with BJP once Shiv Sena breaks off in Maharashtra?
There’s no question. The NCP and Congress have to work together, our going separate ways at elections has affected both of us badly. The time has come for an agreed minimum programme, and we’ll go only with the Congress.
If I had talked about aligning with the BJP, it was just a political strategy. I am from the Gandhi-Nehru-YB Chavan ideology and Hindutva is out of the question. I started my career as a Congressman, and we follow Congress ideology in the NCP. My parents believed in the reform movements of Jyotiba Phule and Dr Ambedkar, and I am a product of that ideology. We can never accept Hindutva and other regressive forces.
How do you like to relax? You are known to enjoy your vacations?
I love reading and listening to classical music – Bhimsen Joshi, Kishori Amonkar. I travel four days a week. I like going to London every year, going to their book shops and parliament library. In India, my favourite destinations are the pristine beaches and deep sea diving of Vengurla, on the Maharashtra-Goa border – the Dak Bungalow there is amazing –and Guhagar and Ganpatipule beaches in Ratnagiri.
